Why Your Quads are NOT Growing

I just went up to well, he lives in Dallas.

I went up to Dallas and got to

be part of the seminar with him.

And we talked a lot of actually

kind of like quad training, squat mechanics.

It’s a cool turnout.

I had so much fun up there doing

that and just talking live with people.

So we definitely want to do more of these

so new listeners that just want to come see

us live and talk nerd stuff, you’ll have to

get more involved and check them out.

But it was exhausting, man.

I slept so shit up there for one, like overthinking

everything I had to talk about the next day.

So I slept crappy.

Then afterwards I was so excited about

all the things that I could do.

I slept crappy again and just wake up.

I need to jot this stuff down.

And when I came home, I can’t

wait to get some great sleep.

And Renee and I went out and it

was like her celebration for Tampa because she

hasn’t been able to really do that yet.

So we went to all kinds of different restaurants.

We found an awesome sushi place that we’ll

have to go to when you come down.

But they had like some high end

rolls, like lobster and truffle oil.

It’s not all you can eat, but it’s definitely

like you pay for this high level quality.

We found a cookie place, then we went to the

Cheesecake Factory because there are three we wanted to try.

And we did the white chocolate raspberry peanut

butter one, and then that Cinnabun one.

I think the Cinnabon one actually

was the best that we tried.

Super sweet. Super sweet. Yeah.

Like two buys and you’re done.

But type of next time we’ll have to go

to another place to try a Detroit style pizza.

Oh, my God.

It was like little like we were the little sizes. Right.

But it was kind of like cheesy bread pizza.

Have you ever had a Detroit style pizza? No.

Is it like thin?

No, it’s thick and it’s square.

Oh, no. Yeah.

In Detroit it came about when they would from

working on cars and they’d have a pan that

would throw like nuts and screws and stuff in.

So I guess someone brought home this pan from their automotive

parts and that’s what they made it out of this.

It’s like almost kind of like a castiron skillet Cook.

Right.

And then it’s like a thicker bread

and they put cheese all around it.

So it caramelizes and blackens kind of around.

And then it’s cheese and sauce on top.

So it sounds like kind of a Chicago aspect to it,

but it’s almost like a French bread type of crust.

That’s really cheesy.

It’s really good.

I still like normal pizza, though.

That was like a cheese stick to me.

Anyway, I’m a melody guy. I have one down here.

I’ve never tried it.

It’s good.

We’ll make sure that happens to Libya.

But anyway, those Delta eight THC gummies, I can’t

do that stuff, man, but Emily does it. Emily will do it.

And one of the big things

is, like, the sleep parameters.

We had a chat about this before.

How much people are improving sleep qualities

with that relative to the gummies that

are THC derived from weeds into kagumis.

It’s very common to see people with endocagomis.

And I’m just finding that anecdotally like

the Delta eight drives better sleep.

And Nick said the same thing.

Says the same thing when she has it.

So it’s interesting.

I can’t fully mechanistically explain the difference,

but, well, there was a store.

I was like, oh, look, this botanical store.

Let’s get this gummy and try wine.

I’ve taken some CBD stuff. I thought it was going to

be like, oh, this light relaxation.

We were fucking high.

Like straight.

It was kicking.

I was like, okay, that’s cool.

I feel relaxed by the time we

got to, like, we took a walk.

By the time we got to bed, it was

like, high to where if you took a step,

all of a sudden you’re in the next room.

Like, you’re just like, spacing out.

I didn’t want that.

I didn’t expect it.

I was out cold.

Fucking cold out coma and woke up crazy groggy.

And it was like that for like, until like, 03:00 P.m.

In the afternoon, unproductive in work, because I was

still like, I think I woke up high.

It’s crazy.

Like this stuff is still like a THC.

But whatever.

It’s like the double bond is in a different

carbon versus like Delta nine THC is from marijuana.

But this one’s from Pimp, right? Yeah.

But anyway, last night, a quarter gummy.

I’m totally weak, I guess, whatever,

like six point 25 milligrams.

And that was good.

So I’m actually functional day.

I can articulate my words and thoughts, but

anyway, I want to tell you about that.

I know that we are very far away from quad training,

but anyway, quad training, that was the topic of the day.

Kick us off.

Let’s get into Quadrant now.

Four quad heads, mainly five if you want to

go searching down the deep realms of what they

found in anatomical perspective on some of the individuals.

But we’ll talk for because that’s

how most people understand it.

One of them crosses the hip, right?

So when we talk about stretch position

versus shortened position, flex hip versus an

extended knee, fully shortened, then extended hip,

bent knee to flex knee, fully stretched.

So we never really see full end range, in my opinion,

for a quad on both ends, we get a little bit

closer to a shortened end range with the quad extension stretch.

End range, if we’re honest with ourselves,

is more like a Sissy squat.

So when we talk about programming squats with end range

in mind, it’s probably more mid to end range.

But I think one of the biggest things we

need to lay out first is what are the

problems that people typically have when it comes to

developing quads and then build out some solutions in

the way that we structure sessions around that?

Because I think that that’s probably going to

provide the most value when it comes to

actually writing your sessions for quad development.

Yeah.

I think just knowing the anatomy can

help a lot of people up.

And I think setting up alignment, too, is going

to be the biggest thing where we’re looking at

for machines, for people that have weak quads, it’s

always why are you getting poor activation within that?

Is that part of the problem?

Is it just a set up issue?

Maybe it’s just poor exercise choice.

So it’s kind of a list that we can go through

of why that might be happening in the first place.

It’s kind of what we went through in the seminar. Right.

So what is going on within the pattern that

you’re not getting good quad engagement to begin with?

It yes.

I think a lot of it’s going to be like capacity based.

Right.

Like do you have relative interrogation capacity to fully

reach depth without excessive hip extension or having to

squatten this Aframe pattern, which is going to shift

a lot of tension towards your loop, obviously, we

can have an argument of whether it loads a

stretch loot or not, and that a frame.

It probably doesn’t as much as a normal squat

stance, but you’re relying on the structure of external

rotation and hip extension in order to move within

these patterns because you lack the function and as

a result, probably don’t develop quite as much quads.

And this is where a lot of

times you’ll see people with better glutes

who don’t have the best quad development. Right.

Because there’s a lot of tension there.

And so it might be like a functional assessment

to start where do you lack and then build

out some ways to improve that over time, but

you still have to output within the session first.

And so then you start going down

the path of building actual connection.

And so we kind of touched on this

is like addressing the shortened in range first

to build that proprioception capacity of.

Oh, yeah, that’s my quads.

Like get it really short while it’s fresh,

create that neural capacity before we go into

the output pattern and then choose the exercise

selection that biases that as well.

A little bit better than other patterns.

I think just speaking on here, it’s probably

hard for people, though, to assess that functional

aspect without, like, really showing it.

So you just have to dive into

the setup which prioritizing any body part.

It’s something that we want to

be training first and foremost.

So I think that next conversation goes, like,

what do you pick for first exercise?

And within that usually, like, Luke saying, like, parts of

we can pick that for one alignment with our structure

and within that alignment, that will also allow us to

get, like, a full range of motion at the knee

without compromising other areas of like, your lower back rounding

or whatever that may be.

So we want something that aligns well, that

gets us full range of motion that is

within our ability to do for bracing.

So that’s, like, has been the argument.

Like, should you squat or should you not squat?

Well, it depends.

If you can brace well for the movement and

be able to give the output through your quads,

then it’s a good movement if you can’t.

Well, that’s an issue to address for one.

But then we can have you working in a movement that’s

more braced until you have the ability to use it or

just make sure you don’t have weaknesses within that.

And so what I mean by that, like, is the

back squat a bad movement or the hack squat?

It’s like the back squat can be a great exercise

if it aligns well for you and you can move

through a range of motion that biases the squad.

And for some people, it just doesn’t like if you

have someone that’s really long femured, a taller guy, or

a short torso, that might be a very bent over

squat, that’s very hip dominant, erector dominant.

So it might not be a great choice.

Now you have someone that’s built with, like,

short legs, long torso that squats super upright,

and they have a ton of flexion, that

could be a great quad movement for them.

But if that same person can’t

brace and stabilize the core.

And so once they’re getting up to a load where you

get a good output from the quads, that their core crumbles,

and then they, like, your butt kicks up, and then it’s

not Loading the quads as efficiently or they get injured, well,

then it’s probably not the best movement.

We should move them to something like

a hat squat or a pendulum squat.

So I think regardless, some type of squat pattern

is usually a good first choice, and that’s then

we’re trying to determine which swap pattern, and it’s

going to be based off of.

Does it train the intended muscle?

What’s the range of motion?

How does it align with your

joints and within your abilities?

And then looking at that bracing component within

that, we have a few options to pick

from for squat patterns for quads, right?

Yeah, quite a bit.

And so there’s the individual component that you

really just have to assess for someone.

But I think if I had to give out some

favorites starting points because I don’t know if the back

squat is a starting point, it could be.

I think it’s a great assessment point tool starting

point, but not an output starting point, arguably.

I think the pendulum squad is on the very top

of my list from what it provides as far as

most of those machines are pretty adjustable on the platform,

so you can have good ankle dorsiflexion planter flexion, and

it won’t be a limiting factor as much.

It also is well braced, so hips are

back on the pad, shoulders are braced.

It’s nearly like a leg press, but it’s an improved

leg press because of the arc that it travels in,

which can allow for a lot of knee flexion.

With someone that if they’re normally like in

a leg press or a Hack squat, that

might be a really limited component.

And then also as you go down, the only disadvantage I see

is it lets off a little bit at the very bottom.

However, it can be a good point, like if you

have some issue with being in that bottom stretch position

and having poor in range strength, it’s a good and

bad thing, right, because you want to develop that.

But at the same time it’s

kind of a safety component too.

The most compromising position is when you’re deep in the

hole in the squat, it lets off a little bit

load and that can be kind of a safety component.

But then as you come up, it loads pretty heavy mid

range, which I think from a hypertrophy aspect, we want to

load the muscle the most, get the most tension and produce

the most force in that mid range to LinkedIn range.

And so you check off that block with the pendulum.

So with the pendulum you have a movement where you

get a large range of motion at the knee.

You have it Loading mid range where you want

it, it’s braced, and you can easily align yourself

within it to suit pretty much most structures.

So I think that would be the top of my list.

I don’t know if you have any arguments against

that being at the top of the list. I don’t.

I would just make the clarification that it’s one of the

top of the list because of the drop off at the

bottom allows you to teach the queuing of foot pressure that’s

needed to activate the quads in a squat pattern.

So for people who don’t have a pendulum,

that’s going to be like a reverse bandit

hack is how I’m teaching that, right.

Because not every gym has a pendulum squat.

And so we’re basically looking at mimicking the profile

of the pendulum within the Hack squat and then

trying to address whatever keeps them from hitting depth

within the reverse fan, allowing them to access places

they haven’t been before, plus creating the contraction out

of the bottom where it ships more than likely

to go wrong and then progress them from there. Right.

And so I think the only argument I would make

is that the pendulum is the best starting spot, but

it’s not the spot we should permanently stay. Yeah.

Like with David, it’s not like, here’s your list.

That’s what you’re going to do

for the rest of your life.

These movements should be rotated for

variety and just repetitive use aspects.

But I think also just to develop, like what

we were talking about in their seminar about developing

full function of all the musculature that is needed

to function in a straight line.

So, yes, at the knee, knee flexion extension.

But like we talked about, there’s all these other

muscles preventing it from rotating around or preventing your

knees from caving in or knees from coming out.

And that’s why we see that happen.

In those movements that aren’t as braced, you

have weaknesses within that are your Rotary muscles

that controlling internal, external rotation of the knee.

You get loaded in the hole and you don’t

have that component strengthened and your knee shoots in

or shoots out or whatever it may be, your

hips shoot up, and that’s when you’re, like, get

injured or like, oh, man, this hurts my back.

I’m not going to do it.

And you move to a pattern where it’s easier.

You don’t need as much of that Rotary component,

so it’s easier to stay in a straight line.

But at some point, if you get load

high enough, those discrepancies will still show up.

So you haven’t solved the problem.

But what Luke is saying is, like these movements

where you can decrease load in that area where

you see that discrepancy happen, you can work on

giving those cues to help someone build that component

and just have the proper form doing it.

But within that, you still need to be addressing other

functions of strength that keep you in those lines.

But I think that’s important.

Like, even with the squad, what

you said the queueing, right.

So where should pressure be in the squad?

Is it just go up and down?

So what was your cue that you use for

at least put pressure in all the squats?

So basically it’s going to be dependent

upon where you’re at in the squad.

But a lot of times I just teach it

out of the hole because people pretty much at

the top kind of do it automatically.

Like they kind of engage your glutes, they push out

and then they hold that push out all the way

down to the bottom, which is where we start getting

some of that leaning into the external rotation pretty hard.

You’re queuing, like this screw into the

floor type of a thought process.

But when we kind of start to approach depth and that

engine rotation has to start to kick in, we want to

queue like big toe down as long as big toe down

doesn’t lift Pinky toe on the opposite side.

So that’s that pronation that allows you to hit depth.

Because if we constantly queue, pushing

out, we’re actually limiting our sub

Taylor joint from creating Dorsettion.

So you’re fighting an uphill battle.

So foot pressure for me is like midfoot, so it

shouldn’t be driving onto our toes or way back on

our heels midfoot and queuing that toe down.

And you can typically feel this, like progressively more

with the more flat foot your shoe is.

However, I would proceed with caution because more flat

foot will drive more pronation without you trying.

So there’s a propensity to over pronate.

You could cause an injury if

you’ve been training in Jordans. Right.

So that big toe is the foot

pressure cue that I typically use.

That typically people click with that’s

a transition in the movement pattern. Yes.

At the top of the movement, you

kind of have an equal foot pressure.

Pressure, for the most part between

heel, Pinky toe, big toe.

As you’re squatting, you start off the squat

with this slight, like, external rotation, contracting the

glutes that brings you down closer to depth.

But that last few inches is this slight component

where you’re rolling the foot a little bit more

pressure onto your big toe out of the hole.

That should be the foot pressure you feel

heel, Pinky toes there, but a good increase

in pressure to the big toe.

Yeah.

Which is why I was saying I queue that

more than the other because most people come off

a rack or come off a hack and they

immediately go out with their foot pressure. Right.

So typically people do the first three quarters of the

movement or first half of the movement or wherever pretty

well, and then it’s just learning that transition.

Yeah.

I didn’t know that that’s a complicated way to have

to think about all that shit while you’re looking.

And so most people don’t.

So I think just having the one queue is helpful,

but it’s important to address that because of why you’re

just setting up a reverse hack in the first place.

Right.

And if you’re seeing people with those issues, it

can help them coordinate that a little bit easier.

I think such a dynamic lift.

But if we’re getting back to the

output side for sure, I see everyone

using like a reverse band along everything.

But then a lot on the hack, and that’s just become

like that’s the best way to set up the hack.

And arguably, I would say that’s not the best

way to set up the hack because I think

the reverse band you actually would be producing, for

one, there’s less load in the bottom.

And so we know, like the muscle at close to

full length has the greatest potential to produce force.

So you’re now in its strongest point.

So at the strongest point where you

have the greatest ability to generate force,

you’re decreasing the load the most.

So it’s kind of the opposite of what you really want.

Now, arguably, you’re trying to

match the strength curve, right?

Well, when I get stuck in the hack on

freeway, it’s not right out of the bottom ever.

It’s always kind of mid range

is where that sticking point is.

So you’re still like, if anything, you’d want to set up

that band to maybe where it just catches a little bit.

But still, I don’t think that’s the best way.

I would argue just, hey, just do free weight or set

a band from the bottom, pulling the weight stack down.

So at least it’s not like storing that potential energy

within the band and shooting you out of the hole.

And so you can use the momentum

from the band to keep lifting.

I would say doing the opposite could be

a much more challenging way and have to

produce a ton of force that way.

I don’t know what are your thoughts?

I would go with the no band as the

best option for output because the purpose of programming

a squad is addressing mid to LinkedIn.

That’s just the setup that’s going

to allow for that the best. Right.

And then from there, like if you want

to get output matching a strength curve band

your leg press after you squat. Right.

And that’s kind of the setup

I run right now is abandoned.

So the way you say, like attaching from the bottom,

I squat, and then I do abandoned leg press. Yeah.

I think the idea of trying to, like match

the strength profile, resistance profile, the hack is like

you’re really trying to overload at the very top

once you get past that sticking point, which at

that point you’re getting to a point where you’re

really starting to stack joints and getting mechanical advantage.

I think just going to movement that just loads that

part of the range a little bit more efficiently.

Probably your best bet, rather than

making the hack less efficient.

So if you really want to load, like the shortened

phase of the quad, it’s like just go do a

set of leg extensions at the end of your workout.

I think that would cover that ground for you.

Well, or it’s the Lake press, which I want to hit

all of our squats first before we jump to Lake press.

So we’ll get back to Lake press.

But there’s another squat I wanted to bring

up because you brought up hack squat, because

a lot of people will have hack squats. Right.

Because the pendulum is the more rare find.

But a lot of people might not even have a hack

squat, or now they might just have their garage gyms.

So I think an actual squat pattern or even out

of a Smith squat would be a good choice.

And I think setting it up to where you have

a quad emphasis and would be the best option.

So I would think probably a slight heel elevated.

So maybe like a one inch, maybe two inch Max with

a safety swap are would probably be other top of the

list if we needed a free weight swap, I would agree.

Yeah. Okay.

I’m going to say something on you’re

going to have to disagree sometime.

I think it also depends on how

someone moves with a safety bar. Right.

Only reason I tend to say safety bar for our

population is because they typically positionally stay a bit better

under a safety bar, like dropping into the hole.

They stay in a little bit

of a positionally, better spot.

But I know some people who high

bar better than they safety bar.

And in that case, it’s like just high bar.

That’s your best bet. Right.

So I would say they’re almost equals depending

on how you move within the pattern.

I would argue most of the people that

are listening to this conversation probably don’t move

in a high bar very well.

So safety bar is probably the way

to go with that slight Hill elation. Yeah.

I think just getting under the bar for

a lot of us spy builders, like the

shoulder mobility aspect, it just cranks it, right.

Yeah.

From a programming perspective, if you have someone who has

weak quads and then weak push body parts, that’s net

load Loading a squat bar on the joint, like, I

don’t care how you it’s not active training of the

shoulder joint, but it’s net stress on the shoulder joint.

It’s going to take away from your capacity

to output and or drive that vector up.

This is why you’ll see, like, I’ll commonly try to

like in phases where I’m driving, pressing very heavily.

I’ll try to avoid the need to use that a lot.

One of the reasons you and the Smith is

because I can do like a soft position.

I don’t have to crank that elbow.

I can just kind of let it sit there. Right.

And obviously, ideally I’d be cranking it a little

bit, which I do to create that lat pressure.

But I’m not having to stabilize the free bar.

So net systemic on me is a lot less.

And there’s some other things, too.

But safety bar is probably your best bet

from not affecting your other sessions as well.

As far as like, net systemic stress on net local stress

on your shoulder complex, I think even with the Smith, you

could use like wrist straps and leave them on the bar

and then just grab the strap in front of you.

Of course, you need someone to unhook

it and hook the Smith for you.

But if you can’t get under the

bar, that could be an option.

I think there’s also something called a man array.

That snap attachment. Yeah.

It snaps on the bar just to make it high bar.

And then there’s even another attachment to turn

a Smith into like a safety squat.

Like it just has handles, right?

So you can rotate the handles.

I saw something like that.

So that’s some options, like if you just need a little

investment in yourself and bring something to the gym, that could

be a simple thing to throw in the gym bag.

But the only other thing I’ve had issues with

the safety squat bar is it tends to want

to pull you forward and go into thoracic flexion.

Thoracic extensor muscles can get work pretty hard.

I guess it depends on programming that if back

is something you really need a lot of.

And depending where your full day is, it

might tax you a lot for that.

So it’s just a consideration,

programming across the whole week.

But with all those things like being considered,

I think it’s still like that thought process

of just making sure you’re using the bar

apparatus you need to make it quad focused.

You get a large range of motion at the

knee, not a lot of hip push back.

You can stay upright with the corporate.

If you can do those things, then you’ll have

a good set up within the squad itself.

As far as foot position goes, toes in, out.

As far as what I’ve heard people like say, hey,

if you go wider or narrower, you’ll work more of

like the lateralis or how do I get more quad

sweeps, squatting, and as far as at least even EMG

study that I’ve looked at, toe positioning within the squad

doesn’t matter for different quad activations of the heads.

All that matters is you’ve bend the knee as much

as you possibly can through that range of motion.

Whether the toes are straightforward or slightly out.

It won’t matter.

Going wide stance or narrow stance,

it won’t make a big difference.

But it does because if you’re wide stance,

you might not get as much knee flexion.

And so that’s the limitation there.

So pick the stance in the foot position that allows you

to move through the full range of motion of the knee.

That would be my advice on it.

I would agree with that 100%.

So we get some squat patterns.

So I’d say like, hey, quad a pick a squat pattern that

fits with all these criteria that Luke and I laid out.

And you probably want to rotate those squat patterns, which

you don’t need to do it every other week.

You could run a metal cycle of six weeks

of one, then rotate to the next squat pattern.

As long as you’re rotating in some manner.

I think that makes a lot of sense.

I like rotating less often if you’re a beginner, so

you can build some efficiency in those movements and then

as you get more advanced, it makes a lot more

sense, I think, to rotate more frequently.

But anyway, so number one, we have our squat, then from

there we have some more juice left in the tank.

Ideally we talked about how many exercises should you

even have it should be enough to train the

quad through every aspect that it can function through.

Right.

So really you could just do a

squat, probably a Lake press or Lake

extension, and that would cover mostly everything.

I know some people say you wouldn’t even need

a leg extension because you’re going to get some

recfim work in some of your other movements.

But to fully eke it out, you might do a leg extension.

I think it’s good to get into that fully

shortened, though, for recipe like hip flex and knee

extended, because there’s not one where you’re really going

to be doing that and challenging it. Right.

Because positionally.

It’s similar to the top of the leg press.

Right flex because of the seat pad,

but leg straight, but your stack joint.

So you’re not challenging the muscles.

I would make the argument that quad extension

squat pattern and always be in there.

And then your leg press is just based on

where can you output the most, get into the

best position and thoroughly connect with your quads to

create an internal stimulus, which is where like leg

press now becomes a very flexible movement choice.

And so it’s like you have someone that has

access to Sideback squat press with long pegs.

That’s a pretty good option because

of the way it moves.

It typically allows for people to

hit death pretty easy standard. 45.

You can always adjust according

to someone’s movement capacity.

You’re always banded as well in order to

allow someone to hit depth if that’s where

they’re having issues getting access or control, which

we could probably get into.

Whether bandit or non bandit leg

press is a good idea here.

I know you like the pendulum. Yeah.

I’ll rotate around.

My thing with the pendulum is getting in it.

It’s a bitch. It is.

And then to get in it and still you

kind of lose a little bit of range.

You can once the Loading is high enough

because it’s starting from the bottom position.

So you get down and then as you push

up, it loads more of the shortened muscle.

So, I mean, it kind of meets that criteria

of what you’re getting out of a leg extension.

So that’s an option.

But I think to mimic that in the pattern is kind

of nice too, because it arches and it can easily get

you more range of motion at the knee that way. Yeah.

I think the best variation of the horizontal

leg press is the Rogers hip press, though. Okay.

Because it’s the mid rack.

So you rack it mid rep.

So it’s like a leg press where you unrack

it and then you go into the rep.

I’ve never used one, so I don’t know.

Game changer. Oh, shit.

It’ll be like if I ever build a

facility, it’ll be the first piece of buy.

Damn, that’s not good. We need to tell Roland.

Hey, I need to go try one.

I think there’s one in new brothels

that set some gym up there.

So when it comes to the leg press, I’m

looking more for where do these people move the

best in and then taking that leg press pattern

according to that, because we’ve probably mostly addressed everything

we need to address within quad extension.

And I think same idea.

For one, why go Lake press?

Second, it’s like you’re moving from a pattern that

requires a lot of racing, has a lot of

systemic fatigue that it creates, and so you could

be a little bit more tech.

So we’re now moving to a more stabilized

position so you can brace the core easier.

It’s basically not going to move.

You’re only going to be moving

at the hips and knee joint.

So it’s much safer aspect to go to.

But I think for most people who have like a 40

or 45 degree leg press, which you see people that unrack

it at the very top, they’re just like quarter reps.

You’re not going down much and you

can use a ton of weight.

So that should tell you right now, like

at the very top of the leg press,

you’re very strong because joints are getting closer

to be stacked and it’s a mechanical advantage.

So that’s the idea why I would use a band

on the Lake press, because to match that profile, it’ll

be harder out of the bottom, and then as you

get to the top, it’ll get easier.

So you can use that with the band to try to

match that to where it’s from the bottom to the top.

It’s just as hard.

And so you can make each rep as effective in

tension across the span of the active contractor range.

And arguably, do you need it?

Does it make it that much better? I don’t know.

It’s hard to say, honestly.

We don’t have a ton of research to say.

We have a few studies.

But I think once you get to the advanced level

and every rep matters and we only have so many

sets in our Arsenal to do and to make each

one as much as possible out of every rep, I

think it will matter for like a beginner or something.

I don’t think you need to ban your Lake press.

Just doing them is going to be plenty of stimulus.

But reaching up into that high, intermediate, advanced level

where like, hey, one rep on a set is

going to make a difference if we’re getting a

good growth stimulus or not, I think maximizing those

avenues is what we should be doing.

We won’t have research on it because to put together

like ten high level bodybuilders and have them do something

like this, it’s just not going to happen.

But anecdotally we’ve seen guys that are

very big, very strong, and they’re using

these approaches and they’re progressing.

So I’ll wait until that evidence and lean into it.

It also makes a lot of sense.

Just logically. Yeah.

Because you’re now taking the opportunity to get

the most output out of the pattern by

matching closer strength cursor resistance profile.

Once we’ve addressed kind of in ranges,

especially like the mid to length and

in range of the swap pattern addresses.

Right, right.

That hits the short end of the muscle pretty well. Yeah.

So sequencing wise, that starts to

get into building a session.

We mentioned one where quad extension first

because you just can’t put your quads.

I think there’s a lot of ways to build up

the session structure for quad training depending on the person.

So a couple of explanations like just to kind of lay

out some frameworks for people, give us a smart idea.

You kind of touched on the

Y squat before leg press perfectly.

Don’t think it needs to be said there

should I touch leg extension just so it’s

included within what you’re going to completely hear?

So after the squad, you need to

eke out more out of your quad.

So you go to your Lake press and then

you’ve eked out everything you can out of your

leg press and then you still need maybe at

that point you still need some type of further

volume to continue growing quads and need more stimulus.

But now you have already have a little bit of

a take so we can move to our isolation exercise,

which would be where a leg extension would fit well.

We can also like we know hypertrophy rep range

wise, price staying within that six to twelve reps

is where we want a lot of our work.

And those like your squat caters well of that I

think your leg press moves up a little bit.

Twelve to 15 reps probably, and then your leg

extension, you could get into even the higher rep

ranges, which we know are really good for hypertrophy.

Also high rep ranges, I think cater well versus

doing like a 20 rep set on a squat

versus a leg extension is a lot different thing.

And then we can also take advantage of probably

some other areas, whether they’re just side effects of

mechanical tension or they’re actually drivers of hypertrophy within

themselves of trying to get like some metabolic stress,

self swelling and take that Avenue for hypertrophy or

we just want to fucking pump.

But anyway, the leg extension would be next

because we can train the muscle fully shortened.

It’s not the best movement as a first exercise

because we are only training the movement fully shortened

and we know training more mid range LinkedIn is

your best for forced production and also hypertrophy.

But at least it’s just EMG research on looking

at the rectus femoris in the squat in the

Lake press and it doesn’t get activated nearly as

much as just doing like a leg extension.

So with the leg extension, you can get, I think,

more rectus and Morris out of it utilizing it.

So it kind of does tie in the full quad development.

I would agree.

As far as set up within it, at least in my

issue with Adductors and how I kind of normally like I’m

kind of externally rotated anyway all the time is I’ll align

myself single leg in it to where I can align up

my knee, ankle and hip to where I don’t have this

like external rotation as I’m coming up in the leg extension

because some people get some knee pain.

I think a lot of that is that for one, you

need to align the knee joint with where the pivot point

is on the leg extension and as far as where the

ankle pad is set up, I don’t think that matters quite

as much because it’s just on the tibia anyway.

But as far as when you’re moving to the

top of the squat, your top of your patella

should be pointing up and not out because otherwise

it would be kind of binding at the knee.

So I aligned myself in the leg extension to

have that set up to prevent like the knee

pain and stuff that can be going on.

If you have any other tips or you

disagree with that or agree, I agree.

I think what people miss out on is like

laying back, not realizing that this pulling your chest

up, kicking back in the seat is not only

creating leverage but creating rotation where you start to

catch a lot of that knee pain as well. Yeah. Okay.

So finding that counter force and pulling it

down and forward to lock that position will

actually kind of help you keep that patella

in a straighter alignment as well.

For those of us that don’t have John Jewett, Adductors

can probably get into a two legged or a bilateral

position where you can align it pretty well.

And the last portion would just be

dorsiflexing dorsiflexing while performing the quad extension

as like the last piece.

Explain that.

Explain the dorsiflexion. Yeah. Why?

Because it’s going to I do it from like

a gate cycle perspective because we should be in

the dorsiflex position when we pull up into what’s

called a sprinter pose and you’ll see people who

lack dorsiflexion do that in the quad extension.

I’m the prime example of this I can’t fully dorsiflex

when I do a quad extension, but that’s because I

lack ankle mobility and so we should be driving that

dorsiflexion while in that quad extension pattern.

I was thinking of as like a

stabilization component throughout the knee and ankle.

Yeah.

Because you’re right.

I didn’t know if that’s what you meant by

it or there’s like something that increased quad activation

by kicking your feet up or something. I don’t know.

But yeah, I guess I could see that as

far as if you’re all limp ankle and maybe

it would increase just like stability doing it.

But I think the last thing that people might end with

was like, hey, I do lunges at the end of my

workout, which the difference between a squat and a lunge is

that it pretty much is the same thing in a sense.

As far as like the front leg working quad, if this

is our focus positioning wise, you can shift around just like

you can on a squat to hit different aspects.

Of course, in the lunch, you do have like that

back leg coming back, which could train more of the

recipe in the LinkedIn state, which is an area that

if you need like recym development is an aspect that

we’re not training with these other movements.

So I think it’s important to get into.

I think where you get into

it is also important consideration.

So if you’re doing lunges at the very end

of your workout, you’re moving to a more complex

movement that requires a lot of bracing.

And the output is going to be more challenging

because of that bracing and lack of stability when

you already don’t have great bracing stability.

Being so fatigued, that’s probably not the best place

to put your lunch a lunch doing first well,

I still don’t know if that’s a great hyperchy

aspect because of the other reasons I mentioned.

I think the lunge has its place in trying to

train the function of like what we’ve talked about.

If you’re having knee travel in or out or more

of a functional aspect or if you wanted something like

that, I would think having it more brace.

So like a split squat in the Smith machine where

you can like have some good bracing throughout, or maybe

it’s a Bulgarian split squat where you have a dumbbell

and you can grab a rack and that way everything

is a little bit more brace and maybe you’re staying

in a higher rep range as well.

So the Loading component is as high.

That could be something better than like a

walking lunge at the end of the workout.

I think you do it that way.

I think you could do like a squat pattern, then

maybe you could do some type of like, Bulgarian split

squats and maybe you don’t have a leg press. Right.

And so you do it that way.

It could be a way to move through it.

But I said I don’t have a lot of

lunge work in my programming because of these reasons.

But I think it’s something that we should get

into just to train the unilateral aspect and also

train that recrim getting back into hip extension with

a little bit of knee flexion.

Yeah, I would agree.

I think the walking lens is more

of a tester or I’m trying to

specifically drive some sort of functional adaptation.

Then I would go split squat as your next

best opportunity to train output single leg and then

single leg leg press is your highest opportunity to

train output on a single leg.

But you don’t get the stretch of the recfen

on the back end with a single leg press.

That’s the only downfall.

So output purposes of split squat, if that’s

the goal, the framework or the split squat,

I would argue barring there’s no issues.

Rearfoot elevated, moderate elevation, safety bar, squat

in a rack, hanging onto the rack. Okay.

Yeah, I can see that’s a lot of shit set up to do that.

Yeah.

At that point probably if I want that

much output, I’m just going to sing like

press instead of setting all that up.

Yeah, that back.

Like I’ve done this and I tore both my rectangles

using a split squat as an output movement because it’s

so complex to do and I think it’s too complex

to carry into the higher ends of Loading and output

and you shouldn’t go there with it.

I don’t think that’s a great purpose

for what we’re doing in bodybuilding. I agree.

But that would be the set up if we

were setting up a split squat for purpose.

You had another choice. Yeah.

There’s no leg press and you got a single leg output.

Like that’s what I’m doing. Yes.

I think you can even argue it is like if

you had maybe some type of development discrepancy, but I

still think there’s a lot more to talk about there.

But you could do like hey, do the

week like first and do the other one.

But this wouldn’t be something that you’re

taking because within that you need to

take it like submaximal effort levels to

make sure these discrepancies aren’t causing compensation.

But anyway, that’s like a rabbit hole.

So let’s get to our wrap up of going

through these movements and how you would lay them

out because you were about to say that.

Then we went like leg extension.

But I think that covered pretty much the exercise

and why we would choose the ones we choose.

Yeah.

So ideal scenario is I’m probably honestly,

most people lack hamstrings, they lack quads.

So ideal scenario session set up is some type

of hamstring curl into a squat pattern into a

leg press, finishing with a quad extension if they

need to load a stretch position somewhere around the

hip complex in order to access depth.

But they don’t have any pain and they connect

well with their quads, probably Loading an adductor first.

So eccentrically Loading an adductor in order to

gain that in range access then squatting.

I know Nick does this a lot as well.

Or you could possibly eccentrically load some of

those things around the hip complex in a

preparatory fashion instead of doing like actual working

set work with it as like secondary.

Because if you think doing failure sets on an

abduction machine when the abductors have so much roll

and hip extension out of the whole of the

squat that it’s going to limit your squat or

your stability component at the knee.

I would argue that, yes, it would, which is why

I tend to load stretch in a preparatory fashion. Yes.

Cosact squat get the adductor loaded into these stretched

positions, split squat for RECFAM things along those lines

within prep a couple of other things, and then

still follow the same session structure of Ham curl

to squat and then pain.

So need to lower output on the squat pattern because of

pain or need to teach someone how to contract a squat

or contract a quad is quite extension first for me.

Yeah, I agree.

I think that can still be done in like a

preparatory activation standpoint if you’re worried about decreasing force output

in your squad because it’s not with the idea of

like if you pre fatigue quads, you might limit your

Loading in the squat, the external Loading.

However, if you have a squat pattern that you go

into and you’re like, I can’t feel my feel a

lot of glutes that might help you within that, maybe

even having some of that pre fatigue there.

But it goes back to our conversation.

If you’re picking a squad where you don’t get a

lot of squad anyway, we should probably make sure you

have a good squat set up in the first place.

But I think where that comes in is like, hey,

we found the best squat pattern for you and you

still don’t get a lot of squad out of it.

Then maybe we should have a Lake extension done first.

Or it might even be that Lake press could be

done first in the higher rep range because we load

the shortened and then you also have a movement where

you can get some high output into.

But I would want to make sure your squat pattern

would be also kind of brace after that too.

But ideally, I agree.

I think it’s going like having prep work that sets

you up to squat and then from there we move

to a more brace like leg press position.

Then from there we just finish it off

everything we got with the leg extension and

like Luke said, leg curling first.

There’s no one around that

has bigger hamstrings and quads.

I’m yet to see it like their

hamstrings are just that fucking good.

So for one, it’s an easy way just to train

Hamps, but I don’t have any other good explanation of

why it just makes the squat feel better.

I don’t know if it’s like, hey, you pump

your hands up and you just provide some Ham

to calf or if there’s something within ACL stability.

I have no clue. I don’t know. Do you have anything?

I would argue that it would pull blood to

the adductor a little bit just because of especially

if you’re queuing internal rotation with leg curl.

Yeah, you’d catch some adductor magnets there.

And so possibly that could be why you’re gaining

a little bit excess without driving a lot of

adductor fatigue, like direct adductor work maybe. Yeah.

I don’t know.

I think if you did unilateral

legs like lying single leg.

It would be even more adductor

Because we’re having a stabilized bogus.

But yeah, other than that, I

don’t really have a good explanation.

No, that’s okay.

I think the best one is that people always need

hamstrings so put it first and it’s not taxing, it’s

not RDL and then go into spot patterns.

Credit to John Meadows so we give a shout out

there Because I read that article on T nation years

ago and he said Lake curl first because hamstrings suck

on everyone but also it makes your knees feel better

when you squat and he had no explanation.

He said that he’s like, I don’t have any science but I’ve

coached so many people and that’s what everyone says so that was

good enough for me and I like to listen to people that

have lifted for like 20 plus years on what they have to

say to keep lifting for another 20 years.

So that’s why I still program it.

But anyway, I think that gives a great framework for

quad training and talking through it so I think we

covered it well, man, 100% intangible things to take away

and go use for people as well, for sure.

All right, guys, I hope you all

enjoy these quad training and hypertrophy ones.

I know everyone wants us to go through

every body part and we eventually will.

If there’s like a serial standout body part that you all

want to have us hit next, leave it in the comments.

If you’re listening to this on YouTube if you’re

on like Spotify or itunes or something, Go to

YouTube and you can put it in the description

and we’ll maybe take all those votes and tally

them and we’ll have a precise counting system that

will tell us which one that we’ll hit next.

But anyway, thanks, guys for listening.

Tune in and we’ll talk to you next time.